Bryson Tiller has spent almost a decade trying to outrun the ghost of his debut album. Trapsoul is now triple platinum, and as it encroaches in on its 10th anniversary in October, still remains one of the most influential R&B projects of the 2010s — or maybe even ever.

Take the unequivocal transparency of rap, marry it to the emotional catharsis of R&B and set it over signature R&B samples like K.P. and Envyi’s “Swing My Way” or Jodeci’s “Alone,” and you have the sub-genre namesake at the heart Trapsoul. While Brent Faiyaz, Ella Mai, H.E.R., and countless other R&B acts have emerged from the subgenre’s ashes, Tiller has spent the last decade reckoning with the album’s impact. Tiller’s sophomore effort True to Self was a slump, a conversation about signing to Drake’s OVO Sound never materialized, and he soon after put his third album on ice. Tiller admits he then spitefully tried to recreate the Trapsoul energy with 2020’s Anniversary, just to prove to his longtime critics: “It cannot be done.”

“I even pulled songs from the Trapsoul era that didn’t make Trapsoul and put ’em on there,” Tiller told Billboard over Zoom. “Even after I dropped Trapsoul 2, people still were like, ‘Hey, we want Trapsoul 2!’”

Tiller then dropped off a Christmas album and his experimental eponymous album in 2021 and 2024, respectively. The latter at times went full pop (“Assume the Position”) and full blown hip-hop (“Whatever She Wants”) with hardly any regard for the singer’s Trapsoul base. The goal was simple: Create anything and everything to flex creative versatility, and to silence the trolls once and for all. If you ask Bryson Tiller: “It was a success, fo’ sho.”

Now freer than ever, his latest double album Solace & The Vices — the latter dropped on Aug. 8, while the former comes out October 2 — finds Tiller in a creative flow state. He raps when he wants, sings when he wants, and he sounds like he’s having a blast even when he’s crooning about his struggles. The result is Bryson Tiller’s most authentic project yet, and likely his first entirely unclouded by Trapsoul‘s fog. He talks with Billboard about all of it below.

Was making a double album an intentional act while you were building Solace & The Vices, or was it something that kinda just happened during the creative process while you were in the studio?

It happened during the creative process while I was in the studio, for sure. I was working on the first part of the album and just got a little tired of talking about my feelings. I was just like, “I’m ready to have fun, summertime’s coming.” I didn’t wanna listen to the type of music I was making during this season, so I was like, “I’m gonna make something fun.”

You sound like you’re having the time of your life on Vices. What role did joy play while you were making that album?

Definitely intentional, I was just so thrilled to stop working on the other project that I just got right to it. I think I even started making one song while I was finishing [Solace], but I was like, “All right, I can’t get too carried I away. I gotta finish this album first.”

What was the reason behind tapping in mostly with Florida artists on this record? You mentioned that you moved to Miami.

My goal was to have only Florida artists on this record, but Bun B is from Houston and BabyDrill is from Atlanta. I just spend a lot of time there. I love the energy there. I think [Florida artists] are all amazing, there’s a lot of legends from Florida. There’s something about Florida music that just does it for me.

You tapped in with a few of those legends, including most importantly Plies. What was the conversation like to get him on “200 Bands?”

He’d wanted to work with me for a while, so we linked up and actually worked on some other stuff for his project and what not. But yeah, I had the song and was like, “Yo, bro, be a part of this” and he sent it back in 72 hours.

You’ve talked a lot about the negative reception to your sophomore album True to Self and how everyone is always comparing everything to Trapsoul. What has it been like over the years pushing back against the criticism of your music post-Trapsoul, and have you ever made something that feels creatively authentic to you but then tossed it because you didn’t know whether the fans would like it?

I’m glad you said it, because for the second album, I definitely psyched myself out. When that came out, I lost my confidence, and then I started working on an album called Serenity, and then I really psyched myself out. I was like, “Yo, I can’t even do this album because I don’t feel in control of my career right now. I don’t feel like I’m in control of what I do creatively.”

Fans are telling me what I need to do and, I don’t know, I just didn’t feel like I was in control. So at that point, I was like, “Alright, I think I’m gonna take a break for a little while.” Then my grandma passed, and I was like, “OK, you know what? The five year anniversary for Trapsoul is coming up so I’m gonna do what the fans have been asking me to do just to prove that it can’t be done. I’m gonna make Trapsoul 2, but I’m gonna call it something different. I’m gonna call it ‘Anniversary’ and pay homage to the anniversary.” You look the album covers are damn near the same. That was just to prove: It cannot be done.

You felt like you can’t make these guys happy.

Yeah, it was so annoying. That type of stuff really makes me not wanna make music at all because, like, I can’t enjoy it. So I made the Bryson Tiller album and collaborated with people for the first time. Worked with writers for the first time. I was like, “I’m gonna do as many different vibes as I can.” It’s not like I was changing my sound, but just doing different things to kind of break the creative restraints people put on me. So I was like, “I’m gonna have a f—king pop song on here! I’m gonna have a song with no Auto-Tune.” Just all different types of stuff, and I’m gonna have some Trapsoul type stuff on there, but all just to kinda free myself from all the restraints.

Did it work?

It worked, it felt so good. I was like, “OK, now everybody will leave me alone! They’ll clearly see I’m doing whatever the hell I want. This is Bryson Tiller now and all the things Bryson Tiller is capable of. Leave me the hell alone, so I can just create.” It was a success, fo’ sho. Now I feel free, and I don’t think anybody was expecting another project this soon. I was like, “OK, cool, now I can keep going silently without them even knowing. I can just do my own thing.” So with [Vices], I was just excited to do me. I got back to writing for myself again.

Yeah the way you approached Vices it felt like you were just in a creative flow state. You didn’t feel confined to the structures of what a Bryson Tiller song should be.

Yeah, and that came from really seeing the success of “Whatever She Wants.” In the midst of me finishing the Bryson Tiller album, I got so tired of working on it. There was so much going on at that time. So I was like, ‘I’m gonna go to Miami and make some mixtapes.’ I went to Miami and made Slum Tiller Vol. 1. Fans were f—kin’ with it, some fans weren’t because they don’t like when I rap, they like when I sing. But I didn’t really care I was just doing me. This was me taking the shackles off.

This is me exercising my ability. And that was so fun I was like, “I’m gonna do a Vol. 2.” So I did Vol. 2 and that’s where I got “Whatever She Wants.” It caught some fire and I really didn’t wanna put it on the album at that moment. I actually kinda wanted to shelf the Bryson Tiller album and just work on a whole album that was like “Whatever She Wants.” So Vices kinda became that, but I wish I could have wrote that energy from the “Whatever She Wants” song.

So now that the shackles are off, have you thought about revisiting Serenity and seeing if you could make it the way you wanted to?

With Serenity I didn’t even feel at peace. I couldn’t create freely. To me that album was like, I’m gonna make this album when I feel like I’m no longer doing it for the money. It has nothing to do with money or critical acclaim, charts, numbers, and I think I’ve reached that point now. Even with Solace & Vices I’m not at all thinking about none of that. My label was just like, “Hey, unfortunately were not gonna be able to submit it to the Grammys.” I was like, “I don’t care about that at all.”

I don’t care about Grammys. I don’t even think it’s Grammy-worthy in the end. It’s not even about whether it’s worthy or not to be honest, It’s more like, I just don’t care. I just wanna give people the music. I wanna give people moments so we can share those moments together at a concert. That’s all I care about.

Anyways, back to Serenity. Now that I’m in a space of feeling so free and not having to worry about having a super-hit, chart-topping album, now I can create Serenity because it’s no longer about that. It’s just about me communicating my feelings the way they need to be communicated and just making music.

I’ve accepted the fact that nothing great, no matter what it is, is gonna be liked by everybody. No matter what, whether it’s a video game, album, movie, I’ve seen some of my favorite movies of all time that I thought were so brilliant to the point where I was like: “Man, I gotta rethink some things.” Then you go online and people are bashing it. You can’t win no matter what. Once I accepted that, that was when I found my freedom, my Serenity, my peace of mind.

So Serenity might see the light of day is what you’re saying?

Definitely, I’ve already started working on it again.

Kinda going off that, if you ever were to sign to OVO, where would you rank you Drake and PARTYNEXTDOOR among other rosters and other labels if it were to happen?

We’d be the best team in the game, for sure. 1000% nobody would be ever to f—k with us. Point blank period.

What’s your relationship like now that the OVO conversation kinda came and went?

Everything’s cool with OVO man. I was just kicking it with [Drake] out there in London when I did the Wireless thing. Maybe I’d be bitter if I was broke and unsuccessful. Life is great man, my life is awesome I’m just blessed to be where I’m at.

I gotta ask you about your video game. What’s the status of the game so far? How is it going over at Trapsoul Games?

The game is coming along great. Been working on it for like five years. We put a lot of time into it. I didn’t really get my first art assets until like 2021, and it was moving kinda slow, but now my art team is very solid. Things are really, really cooking right now. It’s a lot of work, but it doesn’t even feel like work. I wake up every single day and I do that, you know?

Did you ever run into obstacles for being an R&B singer trying to get into video games?

There’s definitely obstacles because first I was like, “OK, maybe I should just intern for one of my favorite game studios.” But then I was like, “Why would they wanna hire me?” I don’t know anything. It’s almost like if a guy comes up to me on the street and is like, “Hey man, I’m really good at music. Can I intern for you?” It’s just like…I don’t know you. So I was like at this point: Maybe I should just make my own game.

You’ve always found some way to implement video game sounds into your music, and did so again on “First Place.” What role do video games play in your creative process as a singer songwriter?

I look at everything like a video game. Life is a video game, man. Things will happen, somebody might say something to me and I’ll be inspired by it… I’m always trying to get to the next level when it comes to my ability to song write and be an artist.

What’s your Game of the Year pick so far?

Damn, I wanna say, it but I don’t wanna give away the type of game I’m working on right now, and it’s a game that’s in the same genre — but I don’t wanna say it so: People might hate me for this, but Game of the Year every year is gonna be Apex Legends.

Octane and Fuse are my go-to’s, and people troll me hard for that.

Nah man, you gotta rock with you like. I’m a Mirage man, I’ve been a Mirage man since day one, pre-season. Gotta stick with what you know.

What’s your rank?

I went Predator in season three but — I don’t wanna say it was easy to go Pred — but it was doable. Now it’s way more challenging because you have to hold Pred when you get Pred.

The closest I’ve come is like silver two. You’re a beast.

Oh s—t, nah it’s a grind but I always get it done.

What about your favorite video game characters of all time?

I’m gonna put Mario in there, he’s an absolute legend. Niko Bellic from Grand Theft Auto IV is in there, he’s super inspiring. He’s like the nicest of all the characters, but he’s also the most badass out of all the GTA characters in my personal opinion. Next, I’ll probably have to say Kirby. I love Kirby so much because he can be anybody or anything. I got Kirby tattooed on me, and I relate to Kirby a lot when it comes to music and stuff like that. Oh, and Mirage!

In closing, how is Breezy Bowl going at this point? What have you learned from Chris Brown about how to navigate this industry as an R&B singer?

Man, I’ve learned a lot more when it comes to like — he’s really a showman. So watching him go out on that stage, he gives it 150, 200% every single night. He really loves it and you can tell. That’s what I love about him, and the highlight of the tour for me was when we got in the studio first night of the tour. He played me some songs, and “It Depends” was one of them. He sent it to me and I didn’t end up recording it until like six cities later.

What was it like performing the song together for the first time at MetLife?

I wanted to do it differently. I was kinda telling them that I wanted to have a little bit of a different experience. I don’t really know.

How so?

I don’t know, I just had a different creative idea. I won’t share it because I still wanna see if we can execute it. But it was cool to be on stage with him. That’s a moment in itself.

How do you feel about the state of rap versus R&B right now?

Some of my favorite rap songs of all time have a bunch of melody in ’em, or some R&B fused into ’em. So I think the world should kind of focus on bringing the two together, like have rappers made more melodic stuff. Cause every time I go to the club now, that’s why I really don’t even like going no more, cause I just can’t bear to hear too much rap music. I love rap music, but I don’t know.

It’s one type of energy.

Exactly. I feel like singles come to the club to meet their potential wife or person or wanna just feel good about themselves and talk to a girl. So I feel like you gotta throw some R&B in there so people can really get the courage. My favorite R&B song comes on I’m gonna have the courage to go and talk to the girl that I been wanting to talk to all night.

I agree, I’m not exactly trying to talk to anyone when Three 6 Mafia is playing.

You know what I’m saying? Especially when she’s trying to shake ass, and I’m tryna talk to her. Now it just looks like I only care about her shaking her ass.