Sabrina Claudio is in creative bliss. After untangling from a tumultuous relationship inside the major label system, the R&B singer couldn’t be more thrilled in her partnership with EMPIRE, as Claudio joined the indie powerhouse earlier in 2025.

After spending years pouring her songwriting prowess into other artists behind the scenes — including a 2017 song she made with Syd evolving into Beyoncé’s Rennaisance track “PLASTIC OFF THE SOFA” — the mirror was turned to herself.

Claudio’s best friend, Jazmin Garcia-Larracuente, presented her with a short film script for what became the album’s title track, which put the pressure on the singer to build out a universe for an album. “I had a guide of what I wanted the album to be about,” Claudio tells Billboard. “Conceptually, all the songs are related to that story, but they’re all written from personal experiences.”

A cathartic journey, what followed was Claudio’s Fall in Love With Her album, which arrived on June 6. Claudio’s story is one of perseverance as she detoxifies from burdensome relationships of the past to rebuild herself to the point she’s open to try again with a brighter perspective, but the layers she’s shed serving as lessons.

The 28-year-old trades her ethereal R&B sound for a lean into alternative female rage. Think if early 2000s Avril Lavigne had a dreamy whispering singing voice. “The past two years I was dating and going through all these emotions. I think because I was giving all my storytelling concepts away to the artists I was writing with, I was like, ‘Okay, now you’re putting me on the spot,’” the Florida native explains. “It was actually the most liberating thing ever.”

Claudio hopes an upcoming short film will showcase her acting ability, with hopes of one day starring in a Hereditary-esque horror movie, or voicing a Disney princess. On the music side, she’s planning to continue experimenting with her sound, which could lead to mini-EPs dipping into dance or connecting with her Cuban and Puerto Rican roots for a full Spanish-language project.

Check out the rest of our interview with Sabrina Claudio, as she touches on a Teddy Swims feature that fell through the cracks, her upcoming tour with Russ and Big Sean and that dating pumpfake stunt she pulled with Tyga.

How’s the reception to the album been?

It’s been so positive. Honestly, I’m so overwhelmed still. I always get really in-depth messages [about] how a song relates to somebody. It’s a bit overwhelming, but it’s amazing. They’re really emotional messages; they’ve been in my feels. For some reason, this album has people relating to it in a grieving way. I get a lot of messages about grieving, so it’s a lot to take in. 

What was your creative process with the album? You said it’s your most conceptual body of work.

Visually, it’s been the most conceptual because it started with something I did with my best friend [Jazmin Garcia-Larracuente]. It’s a script of sorts and that story within the script was written for “Fall in Love With Her,” and that was the only song I had. I wasn’t ready to make an album. When she presented [the script] to me, I was like, “Oh, I guess I do have to make an album.” It put the pressure on me. It was a little bit more curated to the visuals. So all the music videos lead into that final part of the story.  It was a bit challenging, but it was fun. 

Is this your first album written completely from your perspective?

Yes. It wasn’t as much of a challenge as I thought it was gonna be. I think the fear of it being a challenge is what stopped me from doing it. I’m pretty private in my general life. Ever since I was a little girl, I was writing songs from things I’ve never experienced, so that’s how I’ve always written music. As an adult, it became I don’t want to expose myself. Also, I don’t really be dating like that. I wrote a handful of songs with Nasri. He helped pull things out of me that I didn’t know existed. Once he got involved, he pushed the envelope on the sound and things I never spoke about. The reception is so much more powerful. I think people can feel it. I’m so excited for the shows. 

You’ve also lived a lot more life now compared to 2017. As far as your career now, is it easier to promote your music?

Yeah, I be living. I think it’s more work for sure. Just because of social media. I’m not a TikTok girlie. I tried it for a second and hated it. I’m on TikTok, but in terms of posting, I’m not a content girl. Everyone’s posting 100 times a day anyway, so the content tends to get lost. Over-saturating my brand isn’t my ideal situation either, so it’s finding a balance of staying relevant and staying in front of people’s eyes, but also not doing too much to where the credibility is down the drain. It was much easier a long time ago when I first started. 

Do you have a fear of being cringe or an impostor syndrome when creating?

All the time, I still do. At the end of the day, I think I love myself enough to be like, “This is me.” Why not put it online? If people in my general life don’t find me cringe, then chances are I’m not actually cringe. I have a high level of taste. I just be overthinking everything I do. What I been doing has only brought me closer to my fans. Even the people in my life, letting that dumb thought go, has opened so many more doors for me. I’ll be cringe if I have to be.

How’s EMPIRE been compared to your old label situation with Atlantic?

I’m in heaven. Genuinely, just in terms of the energy that’s surrounding me. A lot of the times in my old situation, I was constantly proving myself to people. With EMPIRE, it was so evident to them to the point where they’re constantly reminding me. That alone has been such a shift and it’s only motivated me to be more of a team player and open-minded. I feel safe. The people on my team are constantly trying to elevate me and the core intention is because they believe in me. Before, it felt like I was being told what to do because they didn’t believe what I was doing on my own.

My favorite track on the album is “Detoxing.” 

I’m glad you said that. That’s the one for me. That was the last song I wrote for the album. It was because I had to have one more song. I needed 11 songs. This was probably February and I felt dependent on Nazeri. We went in and I was just talking to him. A month prior, I ended something officially that was destroying me. My life was getting better. I was happy in my career, friendships were thriving, I was working out, like I was improving, but this lingering thought of this person and what they put me through was consuming me.

I didn’t think we were gonna get a song done because we were talking for hours. The first half was me telling him what I was going through and the other half was I couldn’t get this person off my mind and it was pissing me off. It was frustrating because everything else was so amazing and why am I allowing this person to infiltrate my brain? 

Once I said that, Nazeri said, “It feels like you’re detoxing or something.” I was like, “Bingo.” This is four hours in. It felt like we were purging and once we figured out the title, he wrote the song within three minutes. It was him and I on the guitar and we went in. I wasn’t gonna put this song on the album because I wasn’t in love with it. It was just guitar. I lived with it for a month and my manager kept pushing it on me. I went to STINT, who is my guy and he produced half the album. I gave him the gist of what I wanted it to feel like. I’ll tell him my vision for it and then we’ll sit in silence for four hours straight. The production you hear is what he did in four hours.

The outro Nazeri and I didn’t write. The song feels so rock-heavy, and he was like, “You need something classic at the end that feels like purging. I wanna go to a section where you’re fully belting.” I was like, “You know I don’t be belting, honey. I be whispering.” The melody that’s there is the first thing I did. It turned out to be my favorite song on the album. It completed the package.

I heard Teddy Swims was supposed to hop on “Detoxing.” What happened?

I wish it was, but that’s not happening. I tried and I got ghosted. Maybe the song will blow up and he’ll be like, “Actually, yes.” I think vocally, he’d be amazing on it. I love the song so much that it’s standing alone and I’m happy with that. Maybe he will [get on it] in the future. That’s a goal of mine to have him on there. 

Is it weird to be in the moment of older songs and then hear them years later?

Sometimes it’s weird because I listen back to what I did and I’m like, “How did I do that?” A lot of the times, I’m just a vessel and whatever’s happening is flowing through me. I’m not gonna be able to do that ever again. Like damn, I really ate, but I don’t know how I did it. Some songs I didn’t really want to come out, but they were a part of it because of my label situation. It’s either I’m super thrilled or like, “Damn, I wish that wasn’t out.”

It’s funny you said, “I ate, but I don’t know how I did that.” Do other artists ask you to tap into an old sound?

All the time — and I’m like, “You got the wrong one.” I had one artist and her manager was like, “We want a ‘Belong to You.’” First of all, that pissed me off. Second, why would I give that to you? That’s mine. I’m not giving all my juice. I’ll give you a little bit. Even for myself, I’ve tried, like, “Damn, this did really well, let me try to tap into that.” It’s not happening. 

Are there any other big activations coming surrounding the album?

Yes, a big thing. I want it to be a surprise, but it’s the biggest part of the story. Something visual, something storytelling and something people have never seen me do before. It has to do with acting. 

Any plans for a deluxe?

I think my team’s dreaming of a deluxe. I don’t have that many songs. I was pretty intentional this time around. I was only going in when I was super inspired. I would say there are maybe six songs that didn’t make the album. They’re definitely good enough to put out, but does it make sense with what we’re doing? A deluxe would be nice, and a Teddy Swims feature would be great.

Writing for Beyoncé, did you actually end up meeting her? I know it was years ago you wrote a song with Syd in like 2017 and then it ended up becoming “PLASTIC OFF THE SOFA.” How did it get into her hands?

Syd is a songwriter and it was probably within the pitched songs and maybe got to the A&R. That was God for real. I’m not out here thinking I’m writing a song for Beyoncé, especially when I’m just starting out. I ended up not keeping it. I remember Syd asked me if she was okay to pitch it. I said, “Yeah,” and then years later it ends up on [Renaissance].

Syd DM’d me about a year before the album came out, saying she heard that Beyoncé cut the record. I was at my parents’ house and we started screaming. I was like, “Wait, I don’t know if this is real.” I didn’t hear about it for a year and our team got a call about a month before the album. I went into her Parkwoods Studios and her A&R played me her version. I was shook. Nothing’s confirmed until it comes out. A day or two before the album is released, the track list was leaked and I didn’t see my song on there. I’m like, “I knew it!” Truth is, she changed the title. I named it something like “I Love It.” I thought I didn’t get the placement. The credits dropped the day before the album and I saw my name. Then the whole Grammys thing happened and the song got nominated on its own. 

How did you get over the mentality you had of, “If another songwriter’s in the room, the song isn’t mine?” 

Once I became another songwriter in the room. It was a weird ego mentality that I had. I have written with other songwriters for my stuff. The reason I felt that way was the intention behind my label putting songwriters in my room was because they made me feel like I wasn’t good enough. It’s not that I didn’t need the help, I think I was just being made to feel like I wasn’t good enough. When I started writing for other people and realized how amazing collaboration could be, now I have a different mentality. I don’t have people telling me I need a big songwriter in the room to get a hit. That was so annoying. 

What’s next musically? I heard you had an idea of doing a dance EP.

That would be great. I think in the future I’d like to do tiny EPs of different genres. A dance one, one that’s fully in Spanish. Musically, I have a couple of features in the work. 

Whose idea was the Tyga collab that got sparked as a fake relationship? That was a good troll. You guys got me. 

Me. The [Instagram] post was. I thought those pictures were bomb. We look fully in love. I texted him, “Why don’t we post this picture, but like no caption?” I didn’t think he’d be down. He responded in two songs and said, “Let’s do a collab post.” It was easy. 

How was working with Marshmello?

That was amazing, and he’s so sweet. Maybe this was 2023 — I just went in as a songwriter. He reached out to us and we had mutuals for many years, so there was some communication. He asked me to come to a couple of sessions. We wrote a song, and I didn’t hear about it for a long time. He just hits us up asking if I can stay on it. He’s the sweetest guy ever.

Did you see him without the mask on?

Am I allowed to see he’s in the studio without his mask on? Yes, I’ve seen him without his mask. I didn’t know who Marshmello was. Was he even there? I think it was him. He’s amazing. 

What can we expect on tour with Russ and Big Sean?

The thing I love about Russ, and why I thought it made sense to me, was that even though genre-wise we’re in different categories, his lyrical content and what he’s about make us very similar. The fans we bring to the shows enjoy the same thing. We just like to be in our feelings. Expect a lot of emotions.

My set is probably going to be 30 minutes. I’m trying to consolidate six bodies of work into that. I want to sing some of the new songs. I always have my band. A lot of new fans that I’ll hopefully gain, I’m trying to keep it really song-focused.

Getting in your acting bag, what can we expect? You got any roles lined up?

Not yet, but I will after they see what comes out. I’m making my own resume at this point. The project I have coming out is, “Here’s what I can do, now hire me!” Next time you see me, I’ll be too busy to talk to you. A voiceover for a Disney princess or a horror movie like Hereditary.  

Where do you see yourself in 10 years?

Hopefully, I’ll be a mom with a good baby daddy who wants to be in my life forever. My friends will have kids, so we’ll be the mom-life group. Hopefully, I’ll be in some films. Maybe I’ll tap more into the songwriting thing so I’ll have a lot more placements under my belt. Musically, on my end, “Detoxing” will be No. 1 forever and I’ll have a lot of money because of it, and so will everyone in my life. I see myself very happy and fulfilled. 

Since Toby Keith‘s death in February 2024 at the age of 62, numerous country artists have paid tribute to the late Country Music Hall of Famer by incorporating cover versions of his hits into their shows. Now, for Apple Music Nashville Sessions: Toby Keith Covered, six country artists are offering live-recorded covers of Keith’s hits.

Riley Green, Ella Langley, Ashley McBryde, Parker McCollum, Megan Moroney and Tucker Wetmore each recorded songs in Apple Music’s Nashville studio. McBryde covered “A Little Less Talk and a Lot More Action,” Langley performed Keith’s 1993 song “Wish I Didn’t Know Now,” and Moroney performed Keith’s 2002 hit “Who’s Your Daddy?.” McCollum performed “Who’s That Man,” while Green performed Keith’s 1993 debut single, “Should’ve Been a Cowboy” and Wetmore sang “As Good As I Once Was.”

“Toby Keith loved music and especially singer-songwriters. He would be so proud of this group of monster talent that covered his songs,” TK Kimbrell, Toby Keith’s longtime manager and friend, said in a statement. “Thanks, Ashley, Ella, Megan, Parker, Riley and Tucker! Y’all are truly the hottest of the hot, and Toby’s music lives on!”

“When I think of the word ‘honky-tonk’ and what that would sound like, this is one of my references, like Brooks & Dunn would be a reference. Mark Chesnutt would be a reference. Toby Keith is definitely a reference, especially this song,” McBryde said in a statement of recording “A Little Less Talk and a Lot More Action.” “And then, in my adult life, this song has stayed on my playlist, my bonfire playlist, my go-hang-out-on-a-boat-with-my-friends playlist, or pools or whatever the event is. This is one of my mainstays.”

“What comes with being an artist is, I think, the full package. I think Dolly Parton is another one. I think [Toby’s] up there with her in the way where he is a full performer all the time,” Langley said in a statement. “Everywhere he goes, and onstage, he gives 100% of himself. When he’s writing a song, he gives 100% of himself. I think that’s what it takes to be an artist like Toby Keith: giving your all, letting your fans in, and seeing who you are as a human being, because we’re just human beings at the end of the day. Whether it was through being onstage or being in a writers’ room, he just told the truth and was honest about what he believed in. It’s inspiring.”

Several of these artists have covered Keith songs in the past year at various events and on social media. In May, Green teamed up with Randy Houser to perform “Should’ve Been a Cowboy” during the Sand in My Boots festival. Meanwhile, Moroney has been seen singing “Who’s Your Daddy?” multiple times in social media videos. Several of the artists, including McBryde, Langley and Green, took part in the Toby Keith tribute concert that aired in August on NBC.

“Toby Keith is a legend and there are so many songs that I love — ‘Who’s Your Daddy’ has become my band and I’s pre-show hype song and it felt like the perfect one to choose to cover!” Moroney said in a statement. “I’m excited to be a part of this series honoring Toby Keith and I hope you love my version as much as we do!”

“It’s one of my favorite Toby songs and one of my favorite country songs of all time,” McCollum added. “I feel like as a songwriter, I’m always trying to write songs from that perspective of the sad, heartbreak love songs about everything going terribly wrong, which this song encapsulates pretty well. You never had to wonder whose song it was when you heard a Toby song, and this one’s at the top of my list in his catalog. It’s an honor to get to do it.”

“That was one of my favorite Toby Keith songs,” Green said of “Should’ve Been a Cowboy.” “I think because growing up in Alabama, we didn’t have a lot of cowboys. We didn’t have horses; we didn’t have big, long pastures like they got out in Texas and Oklahoma and all that. For me, that lifestyle of being out on the open range was so foreign to me, but also just seemed cool. I loved that song as a kid.”

“When I hear the word ‘legacy,’ I think of legends, and Toby Keith is definitely one of those legends in my book,” added Wetmore. “Like the old saying goes, legends never die, and neither will his music. Toby Keith’s music, in three words, is legendary, nostalgic, and just something that’ll never grow old.”

In October, Keith was posthumously inducted as a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame, entering prestigious institution alongside John Anderson and guitarist James Burton.

Check out Apple Music’s announcement and get a peek at the cover songs:

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Apple Music (@applemusic)

 

The boys are back. In a Weverse livestream Tuesday (July 1), all seven members of BTS reunited for the first time since completing all of their military service requirements and shared plans for their future.

Squeezing in together on a cozy-looking couch, RM, Jin, SUGA, j-hope, Jimin, V and Jung Kook smiled while greeting ARMY as a unified group for the first time in years. Laughing and joking with each other, they shared in a group statement, “We’ll be releasing a new BTS album in the spring of next year.”

“Starting in July, all seven of us will begin working closely together on new music,” they continued. “Since it will be a group album, it will reflect each member’s thoughts and ideas. We’re approaching the album with the same mindset we had when we first started.”

The performers also announced plans to hit the road again in 2026. “We’re also planning a world tour alongside the new album,” they said. “We’ll be visiting fans all around the world, so we hope you’re as excited as we are.”

ARMY has been waiting for this moment since Jin became the first of the Bangtan Boys to enlist in the South Korean military in December 2022. Over the next two-plus years, the remaining members gradually completed their own service periods, with RM, Suga, V, Jimin and Jung Kook becoming the final groupmates to be discharged in June.

Leading up to their long-anticipated reunion, BTS has been teasing plans to make a comeback as soon as possible. In April, j-hope told Apple Music 1’s Zane Lowe that he anticipated the band’s next steps to have “massive energy,” while Jimin told Jimmy Fallon in May, “It was great to be alone, but when they come back [from the military], since they worked very hard, I’m going to honor them and give them great respect.”

Now that the band has officially confirmed when they’ll return with new music and shows, fans will be counting down to spring 2026 to see what the septet has in store. BTS last dropped an album in 2020, with Be reaching No. 1 on the Billboard 200, spawning Billboard Hot 100-toppers “Dynamite” and “Life Goes On.”

Warner Music Group and Bain Capital have announced a $1.2 billion joint venture aimed at acquiring high-profile music catalogs, including both recorded music and publishing rights. First reported by Billboard, the strategic alliance — jointly funded by both firms — aims to provide support for artists and songwriters while amplifying the impact and longevity of their creative legacies.

The companies said on Tuesday that WMG will lead on marketing, distribution and rights administration, while the partners will jointly identify and secure catalogs. Goldman Sachs and Fifth Third Bank are acting as lead arrangers for the venture.

This collaboration combines WMG’s global infrastructure with Bain Capital’s investment capabilities to position the joint venture as a top destination for music assets.

“Iconic artists and songwriters choose WMG to grow their legacies and introduce their art to new generations through impactful and innovative campaigns,” said WMG CEO Robert Kyncl. “Augmenting our deep expertise and global infrastructure with Bain Capital’s financial prowess and belief in music will make us the destination of choice for preeminent catalogs.”

Angelo Rufino, a partner at Bain Capital, added: “Timeless music content continues to sit at the center of consumer entertainment. Stewardship of catalogs has never been more important as artists and songwriters deserve support to enhance the value of their work while delivering fans new and exciting collaborations.

The move reflects a broader industry trend, as major music companies seek outside capital to remain competitive amid rising catalog valuations and high interest rates. Catalogs have become increasingly lucrative thanks to the longevity provided by streaming platforms, where older tracks thrive through algorithmic and curated playlists. At the same time, investor caution is growing due to shifting artist preferences toward independence and more favorable deal terms.

This joint venture follows a string of high-profile catalog acquisitions across the industry, such as Sony’s $1.27 billion purchase of Queen’s catalog and its $625 million investment in a stake of Michael Jackson’s catalog. WMG itself has been active in the space, having previously backed catalog ventures like Tempo Music Group and Influence Media.

Key to structuring this new initiative was Michael Ryan-Southern, WMG’s head of corporate development and a former Goldman Sachs executive. He also led the company’s $450 million acquisition of Tempo Music, which includes works by Wiz Khalifa and Florida Georgia Line.

WMG’s relationship with Bain Capital dates back to 2004, when Bain joined forces with Thomas H. Lee Partners, Edgar Bronfman Jr. and Providence Equity Partners to acquire the company in a landmark $2.6 billion cash deal

Describing the sound of Clipse’s first album in 16 years, Let God Sort Em Out, in one word, Pusha T puts it in succinctly menacing fashion: “Urgent.”

It’s as if the pair of singles, “Ace Trumpet” and “So Be It” were sizzling pre-emptive missiles setting the stage for the atomic bomb to light up the rap game, with the album arriving on July 11.

“It comes from just trying to find a feeling, and trying to think back to feelings that you once had that were very impactful musically,” Pusha T tells Billboard of the urgency surrounding the Clipse revival. “What did you feel like when you heard ‘Who Shot Ya?’ What was ‘Shook Ones’ to you? It dives into a whole world of what was urgent to you then.”

It wasn’t a linear journey to a Clipse reunion. Malice left to follow his faith after the duo’s Til the Casket Drops album, and took “baby steps” towards a return over the years, as he was pulled back into hip-hop bit by bit.

“One being working on [Ye’s] Jesus Is King album with my brother. Featuring on “Punch Bowl” on NIGO’s I Know NIGO album. Then on It’s Almost Dry,” Malice explains. “Those baby moments showed that there was still relevancy there and a space I think needed to be occupied. We’re not into existing in rap, it has to be revolutionary.”

Continuing what feels like a lost art in the genre with one of the best album rollouts hip-hop’s seen in years, the Clipse sat down with Fear of God designer Jerry Lorenzo on Tuesday (July 1) for Spotify’s Countdown To vodcast series. As part of the interview, Pusha revealed that Let God Sort Em Out‘s star-studded line-up that will feature guest appearances from Kendrick Lamar, who wanted to be on two separate tracks, Tyler, The Creator, Nas, John Legend, The-Dream, Pharrell, Stove God Cooks and Ab-Liva.

Watch the full Countdown To episode, and find our interview with Clipse diving into the duo’s reunion album, Def Jam’s attempt to block Kendrick’s verse and their Grammy aspirations below.

For the interview with Jerry Lorenzo on Spotify, why was it important to sit down with him, and when did you first connect with him?

Pusha T: I think it was important to sit down with Jerry, because I think Jerry is somebody who’s known and followed the group for some time. I go back to when he was promoting parties. He’s one of my first memories of L.A. It was important because we took this path together. Him from party promoting to fashion. Us from music to fashion. I thought he’d be a good person to be able to speak to from day one to Let God Sort Em Out.

Did he have the fashion line first with Fear of God, or did you have the mixtape first, because both are circa 2011?

Pusha T: I had the tape first. 

Malice: Sitting down with Jerry and the fact he acknowledged how big of a fan he was and how important a role our music has inspired him, and the name Fear of God was heavily influenced by the work Pusha has done. It was good for me, because we carry the same faith. His line of questioning and the back and forth was relatable. To see how [influential] the Clipse and Star Trak movement has been on him, I felt really at home.   

Do you ever keep score with each other when making the album, like, “Oh Malice got me on this track?”

Malice: I don’t look at it like that. People have their opinions, and what else are you going to do but compare? We’re brothers, and Pusha has been lyrically a beast the entire ride. I think when you put the both of us beside each other, what else is there to do but decipher who’s better? I don’t put anything into that. The group in itself is exactly what it’s supposed to be. We actually bring two different vibes to every song — his personality and my personality — and that is the dichotomy of the Clipse, and I think that’s what people gravitate to. 

Pusha T: Even when it comes to the features, at this point making music is such a science and a formula to us that we give all our features our verses [beforehand]. When we feel like we’ve delivered to the best of our ability, it doesn’t matter what anybody else does. Especially from a feature sense, because we’re trying to make the best song possible. When somebody’s not in there with you, you have to give them all the tools, so they understand what’s needed from them on the record.

When the album started to come together, was there a moment for you, Malice, that Pusha had to convince you, or did it come bit by bit for you to be all in?

Malice: The whole hiatus for me was a soul-searching journey. Over time, when I felt comfortable — and I didn’t know if there was ever going to be a time that I felt comfortable, so it wasn’t like I was waiting for the right time — I would say that there were some baby step moments that played a part in it. The fact my brother has kept the integrity of hip-hop alive, in my eyes, the way I’d like for it to be done, made room for me to be part of a force I’d want to be aligned with. Otherwise, it never would’ve happened. It has to be something that doesn’t feel redundant. One thing I’m hearing over and over again that I agree with is that there’s a feeling that’s been restored, and I see it like that. That’s confirmation that we doing what we supposed to be doing. 

You also said that “everything around is being critiqued at all times.” I feel like a lot of times with artists that’s not the case. How do you leave your ego at the door, and allow that brutal coaching from collaborators and people around you?

Pusha T: I think that’s the only way to make great music. You have to have honest opinions around. For me, I live by that. I don’t let people even in the studio I feel are just bobbing for no reason. I don’t like people who have no opinion, but I also don’t like people around who don’t know. I want people embedded in the culture and rap enough, and know the history of the group as well as the climate of what’s going on outside, to even give an opinion. That’s the key to success. Have opinions of real people around at all times. Friends or no friends, that don’t matter. They just have to be informed.

Malice: I also think self-awareness is key. You definitely have to be self-aware and sure and confident [in what it is] you do. That’s where it starts, and after I feel like I delivered my best, then I open the door to opinions to see whether I’m off, or what the sentiment is. I definitely believe that it starts with yourself. I feel like we ask ourselves questions that we already know the answers to. I know if something ain’t right or if it’s dead on. If I’m mistaken, I’ll listen and see what the consensus is of what I produced. 

The mission seems to remain the same, but does anything change as far as the mentality creating over the years? From the 2000s to now, you guys are fathers, and even grandfathers. Does the approach change?

Malice: I think real-life experience, you gotta bring that into the music. That is what our fans really appreciate. The level of being genuine and the vulnerability. Not trend-chasing. We haven’t been out in a while, so I guess the thing is to see what’s going on and try to replicate that. That’s definitely nothing we would do. Just being true to ourselves and bringing that into the music. 

What’s the biggest difference for you, Malice, coming into the landscape of the streaming era of music? 

Malice: I’m not going to bore you with the laundry list. I will say that the attention seems to have strayed from the artistry and seems to be more about streaming and the numbers or the comparisons to this one and that one. The focus and the love for organic, true hip-hop and lyricism — it’s good to evolve, but you can’t act like the origins don’t matter. We’re still with the fundamentals. That’s why we’re here right now. 

Pusha T: I feel like the fundamentals never go out of style. There are different ways to update the operating system, but truthfully, the core of it is all the same. What we’ve done is stay relevant by being entrenched in the culture in every way we can. Hip-hop isn’t just rap, it’s clothes, it’s knowing what’s good and what’s not. A lot of people forget that. That’s where you start to see your favorite rappers: “They kinda good with the bars, but it’s something a little off about it.” This is a day and age where you can’t be off about anything. People see through it. They’re quick to write you off. 

On The New York Times’ Popcast, you talked about [discovering] Clipsters and how that kind of changed your scope and how you viewed yourselves in a way. Can you expand on that? I found that interesting.  

Pusha T: We just came up through different eras and different times of rap music. By the time the Clipse hit, we knew a certain — I think I was speaking to the mixtape culture and how I would have to go out and get my mixtapes and find my favorite rap and exclusives and that was heavily bootlegged on the street corner of Norfolk State University. By the time the Clipse came around with the We Got It for Cheap mixtape series, it was on the internet. I wasn’t prepared for the switch. I actually hated it. Not knowing that the times were changing and this was gonna be the future. Learning experience, and luckily my ignorance in that respect didn’t bleed into anything else because I was dead wrong about that one. 

Malice: At one time we thought we were only catering to a certain listener. The ends justified the means. We started seeing at our shows that it was a lot of white college kids who was paying close attention to not only the lyrics, but the things we were wearing at the time. It’s the reach of music, and you never know who’s listening or what culture it engages. We’re so appreciative of our fans. That’s a real thing with us. Those people who have not only stuck with Pusha, but the Clipse — and still following, and still remember the times, but still recognize that it’s still current and very much relevant. They and we were right to begin with.

How did Pharrell push you in the studio this time around to make sure everything was top-level?

Malice: It was still very comfortable. Very much nostalgic. Lot of jokes and a home feeling. With the level of production that Pharrell does, it’s still very inspiring. Makes you want to dig deep and come with the best lyrics to complement. It’s the same as it ever was.

Pusha T: I think a heavy focus on song structure and what he called the stickiness of making a record from verse to hook. Outside of that, I think we’re all at a point in our lives where we want to make one type of great thing. Once we hit the vein on that, then it’s locking in and doing it 12 more times. 

Kendrick’s verse on “Chains & Whips” — did you think Def Jam was always going to block that?

Pusha T: No, I was shocked by it actually. I was shocked at first. We haven’t been doing anything particularly. For the past two years, it was just creating the album and back and forth to Paris. It was no ill intent in creating that song. We weren’t on that type of time, so it was totally a shock from what I feel like the optics were enough to put a halt to something like that.

Malice: I don’t know if you recall, Push, but we did all we had to do, and we delivered everything [to the label]. Our job was done. That was the last thing. 

Pusha T: That is true. These were the types of things that were said. 

People thought you pulled up to Kendrick’s show to get the vocals.

Pusha T: I actually pulled up to the show just because. I was just tryna catch one, and Boston was a good one. It was awesome. People were mistaken, thinking I was getting the vocals. The vocals have been in, man. 

What were your conversations with Jay-Z like, going over to Roc Nation? Was there any teasing of a potential record if he wanted to test the waters?

Pusha T: I think the biggest thing was getting the deal done, and getting the business done. You always want Jay-Z to rap, and [we] always got a record somewhere for him. More importantly, was the idea of being in business with him. Everybody just executing to the fullest extent. Just getting a deal done in 24 to 48 hours. That’s next level. We did a great job in bringing over a classic product. You see this rollout, man. You could search “Clipse rollout” online and see what they’re saying. These are things we can do to show our dedication and work ethic. That bleeds onto the label. It’s mutually beneficial for everybody to execute. 

Can you touch on getting features from Nas and Tyler, the Creator?

Pusha T: I’m so glad the Nas feature happened. That was a day in which we had done the title track “Let God Sort Em Out,” and Pharrell was looking for a change in the beat and he came up with the beat, and was like, “I need eight bars a piece.” And when I heard it, I was like, “Nah, this is Nas’ beat. This s—t sounds like Nas.” I sent it to him with the vocals, and he was like, “Oh my God, this is mine. I get this?” He was all in. He called me three or four times with different edits to his verse. Before he laid it down. He was writing it in real time over days. “I think I’ll be in the studio next Thursday or something.” 

Tyler was actually in the studio. He was in Paris a lot, doing his collab with LV. He kept begging me for this one song he wanted to hear. I was like, “All right, I need for you to get on this album.” He was like, “Okay, send me whatever records.” He started tour, but had a setup with him out there. Sent him a few options and he did his thing. He went crazy. 

Malice, did you ever feel conflicted at all in any sense rapping in this style while juggling that and not cursing?

Malice: Oh nah, you might catch a few curses. Naturally, I’m not a casual curser anyway. There are instances you catch me on the right day. Cursing is not my first go-to. My vocabulary and expression far exceeds that. I might curse you out better without cursing. People say that my eyes can curse you out.

I had to learn and it did take some navigating. Especially for people of faith, I think what they tend to do is kinda paralyze themself into inactivity by not doing nothing. By not occupying your position or your space, because you’re too busy tiptoeing. In the midst of the tiptoeing, you don’t get anything done. That does take revelation and time to understand. There is a sit-down period to evaluate yourself and understand something. All of that plays a part in finding out that this is exactly the right time. I’m glad it got to be a time to put our legacy together. 

Are the Grammys a goal with a project with this?

Pusha T: A Grammy run is always the goal. We definitely would love to take home the trophy.