A Los Angeles judge has ordered legal punishment for a lawyer who repped security guard Emani Ellis in her assault lawsuit against Cardi B, ruling that the attorney intentionally violated court orders by asking the superstar if she had any gang ties.

In a ruling Wednesday (Jan. 28), Judge Ian Fusselman says Ron Rosen Janfaza must pay a $1,500 fine and self-report to the bar association over the incident, in which he asked Cardi on the witness stand if she had “any affiliation at this time with a gang,” despite a ruling that such questions were out of bounds.

Related

Janfaza argued he was “simply asking questions” as he tried to “zealously advocate” for his client — or, alternately, that he was a novice litigator who had merely forgotten about the earlier order — but the judge says he is “not persuaded by any of these arguments.”

“It was no accident. It was not the result of inexperience or stress,” Judge Fusselman wrote in Wednesday’s ruling, obtained by Billboard. “It was a knowing and intentional violation of the court’s ruling.”

Ellis sued Cardi in 2020, claiming the star had assaulted her when she worked as a security guard at a Beverly Hills gynecologist’s office in 2018, when Cardi was four months pregnant with her first child. But after a September trial, it took jurors less than an hour of deliberations to reject the accusations and clear the star of all wrongdoing.

Related

Ahead of the trial, the judge banned Ellis or her lawyers from making any reference to prior “bad acts” by Cardi, including her well-documented days as a stripper or her self-professed involvement with the Bloods during her youth in the South Bronx.

“Defendant’s … prior involvement in exotic dancing or gang associations have no apparent probative value and any references thereto would be unduly prejudicial and likely to confuse the jury,” the judge had written in the ruling.

But at the very start of his questioning of the star, Janfaza did exactly that, asking her: “Do you have any affiliation at this time with a gang?” Her lawyers immediately objected, and the judge warned Janfaza about any further mention of the subject.

Related

In the wake of the verdict, Cardi’s team asked the judge to issue sanctions, or judicial punishment, over the gang question. Janfaza responded by offering a litany of excuses, ranging from procedural error — that his office manager had inserted the question into an outline — to the self-effacing.

“He is not an experienced litigator, had very little sleep and the violations were mistakes and not willful,” the judge wrote, summarizing one of the attorney’s arguments, before recounting another: “In previous trials, he had made significantly more egregious arguments without facing sanctions.”

But in his Wednesday ruling, Judge Fusselman rejects all those explanations, calling them “inconsistent and contradictory.” He says Janfaza instead simply made a “knowing and intentional violation” of a clear court order: “It is clear that Mr. Janfaza was aware of the [earlier ruling] and that the question was specifically drafted in an attempt to avoid directly violating the letter, but not the clear intent, of the court’s ruling.” Neither side immediately returned requests for comment.

Wednesday’s ruling is a win for Cardi, but it could have been much worse for Janfaza. The judge refused to issue harsher punitive sanctions and also declined to order him to repay Cardi’s legal bills — fines that could have been many times higher than $1,500.

All products and services featured are independently chosen by editors. However, Billboard may receive a commission on orders placed through its retail links, and the retailer may receive certain auditable data for accounting purposes.

The ShopBillboard team can be found working from home on occasion, typing away and finding the best deals for you, likely listening to the latest and greatest hits that have graced our charts.

When working, we rely on fast and affordable home internet to get us through, a lifeline if you will, that can be likened to morning coffee. A good Wifi connection is essential, especially for the folks who have to deal with hybrid schedules that have you juggling working at the office and at home all at once. Without that stable connection, we wouldn’t be able to bring you the music content we work so hard to write up. Enter T-Mobile’s 5G Home Internet plans, a saving grace that offers hard-working individuals the support they need to confidently work from home, without costing a fortune.

Starting at just $35/month with Autopay; plus taxes & fees and a T-Mobile postpaid voice line you can get reliable 5G home internet. You’ve got fast internet for the whole family, giving you crisp, clear access to streaming hit movies and Billboard charting artists’ new music a la A$AP Rocky and Madison Beer, while also working just as reliably for long work days and important Zoom meetings.

If you’re really feeling frisky, T-Mobile 5G Home Internet’s fast internet1 is powerful enough to support software to make your own tunes from the comfort of your own home, a key function for some of our music-lover readers. In short, the provider allows for creativity and innovation whether you’re tackling your job or a music-oriented endeavor which is something we can totally get behind.

From the standard plan, T-Mobile 5G Home Internet also offers an Amplified plan for $45/month with Autopay; plus taxes & fees and T-Mobile postpaid voice line, which includes faster internet than the Rely plan for only $10 more. Finally, you’ve got the All-In plan for $55/month with Autopay; plus taxes & fees and a T-Mobile postpaid voice line that includes everything mentioned above, along with a wi-fi mesh extender and streaming perks. This includes Hulu & Paramount+ Essential.

The plan is much more affordable than simply shelling out on a singular subscription to those streaming platforms alone. For example, a standard subscription to Hulu is $11.99/month, while a Paramount+ Essential plan will run you $7.99/month. Add that up and you’re paying $18 a month, and that’s without the fast home internet. If you deem that none of these plans are right for you after 15 days, you’ll get your money back.

Want even more bang for your buck? Now new home internet lines get a snazzy virtual prepaid Mastercard. For the Rely plan, you get $100, $200 for the Amplified plan and $300 when you sign up for the All-in plan2 for a limited time. To put that in perspective, you can buy a bunch of new albums from your favorite artists, including merch, for $300. Ultimately, that means more cash back in your pocket.

  1. Fast/Reliable: Speeds vary due to local network characteristics and management. During congestion, customers on this plan may notice speeds lower than other customers and further reduction if using >1.2TB/mo., due to data prioritization. ↩︎
  2. Savings with $15 monthly bill credit. Credits may take up to 2 bill cycles; credits will stop if you cancel any lines or change plans. Up to $300: Via virtual prepaid card when you activate a qualifying new Home Internet line online. Available for digital activations ($100: Rely; $200: Amplified; $300: All-In), not available in retail. Allow 14 weeks from rebate submission. ↩︎

The creator of the Nickelodeon series Big Time Rush has reached a legal settlement with Sony Music Entertainment over financial splits from the recent reunion of the TV show’s eponymous boy band.

Related

Scott Fellows, who created the hit show about a fictional boy band that ran on Nickelodeon from 2009 to 2013, sued Sony this past summer, alleging the major music company nefariously structured Big Time Rush’s 2021 reunion deal to cut him out of touring revenues. Now, a Thursday (Jan. 29) federal court notice says the matter has been resolved.

“The parties have reached a settlement in [principle] of the above-titled matter,” reads the joint filing from Fellows and Sony, which does not spell out any terms of the resolution. Reps for both sides did not immediately return requests for comment on the matter.

The real-life members of Big Time Rush released music and toured under a deal with Sony during the heyday of their Nickelodeon show. According to Fellows’ lawsuit, this deal gave him 3.75% of the band’s touring revenue until its members went their separate ways in 2014.

Big Time Rush reunited in 2021, but this time they opted to go independent. Fellows claims the band licensed its trademarks and catalog in exchange for giving Nickelodeon and Sony 10% of future revenues — but that Sony intentionally wrote the terms of this licensing deal to eliminate his share of the profits.

Fellows’ lawsuit sought to recoup a 3.75% share of the earnings from Big Time Rush’s 2022 reunion tour and the ongoing In Real Life World Tour, which kicked off in July and is set to run through March.

Big Time Rush the band was not named in the lawsuit or accused of any wrong-doing. Reps for the group did not return a request for comment on the settlement.

All products and services featured are independently chosen by editors. However, Billboard may receive a commission on orders placed through its retail links, and the retailer may receive certain auditable data for accounting purposes.

Dr. Martens has had some iconic collaborators from the music scene who have transformed their beloved shoe silhouettes into something unique.

We’re talking the Sex Pistols, Black Sabbath, Joy Division, New Order and The Who, just to name a few; however, none have aligned better with the brand like Metallica, Dr. Martens latest collaborator. For this collection, the iconic heavy metal band’s aesthetics are translated into some of the brand’s best-selling footwear, namely the 1460 ankle boot and the 1461 derby style. Both silhouettes can be purchased now on Dr. Martens website while supplies last. The launch is limited, meaning you’ll want to act fast if you want to get your hands on either style.

When you think about it, the meshing of both Metallica and Dr. Martens is pretty perfect. We can clearly envision fans of Metallica wearing these styles, headbanging and moshing in a crowd full of concertgoers, getting their fresh new kicks all scuffed up and muddy, the way Dr. Martens shoes are intended to be worn. Dr. Martens has always branded towards an audience of those on the edge of society; in fact, the brand was founded on feeding into the 1990s grunge movement. It was all about dressing metalheads, goth and punk kids, those deep into countercultures, looking to express themselves through their clothing.

Where to buy Dr. Martens x Metallica collaboration online.

Dr. Martens 1460 Metallica 8-Eye Smooth Leather Boots

This is a heavy metal take on the brand’s iconic 1460 silhouette. The boot is decked out in colorful grugy grahics like skulls and eye-catching red lettering.


The 1460 boot is a staple of the Dr. Martens brand and, as such, was treated with the utmost care in this collaboration. These Metallica 8-Eye Smooth Leather Boots retail for $200 and come in sizes for both men and women. You’ve got all the usual suspects of the 1460 style, yellow welt stitching, a branded pull tab and glossy Backhand leather uppers along with eye-catching grungy graphics on the uppers and toe box pulled straight from Metallica’s seminal 1988 Damaged Justice tour created by the artist Pushead. The boot is ankle length and lace-up.

In our experience with the 1460 boot, we can say that time makes these boots even better. Fresh out the box, the style is a winner worn with jeans or juxtaposed with a maxi skirt. Like all Dr. Martens styles, constant wear softens the leather, making for a more comfortable experience on the foot. They also look better all scuffed up and worn in, each crease telling a story. Dr. Martens’ 1460 is a durable model that won’t steer you wrong, lasting you years upon years of wear, making them a stellar investment piece.

Where to buy Dr. Martens x Metallica collaboration online.

Dr. Martens 1461 Metallica 3-Eye Smooth Leather Shoes

This style is something akin to a derby shoe with Dr. Martens’ signature welt stitching, accompanied by graphics that make reference to the band’s 1986 Damage Inc. tour.


The 1416 is a derby-style option, a preppier choice retailing for $180. This smooth leather silhouette also features a lace-up design with contrasting yellow welt stitching. This time around, the graphics, also dreamt up by Pushead, making reference to the band’s 1986 Damage Inc. tour. The tour was a significant milestone for the band, being that it was the final tour featuring bassist Cliff Burton before he died in a tragic bus crash in Sweden that same year. The tour was in support of Metallica’s fan-favorite Master of Puppets album, which peaked at number 29 on the Billboard 200 charts. The tour also marked their transition from opening for Black Sabbath’s Ozzy Osbourne to headlining.

Once again, you have sizes for both men and women, making the shoe unisex. Skull iconography is seen throughout the shoe, along with the word “Damage.” Like the 1460 boot, these leather derby shoes will also look better as they’re worn. This is a less-grungy option that we think would look right at home with baggy jeans and a crisp button-down or your favorite vintage Metallica band tee.

Neil Young is done with the “fascist Trump regime” — and all the companies he claims are financially backing it.

Related

On Thursday (Jan. 29), the veteran Grammy-winning rocker posted a fiery essay to his Neil Young Archives website, in which he lambasted several companies for their financial support of President Trump and his administration, namely Verizon, T-Mobile and Apple.

“One idea I have to keep [my flip phone] is just to change services and drop Verizon service like a cold fish. It’s the money I give Verizon for my service that’s doing the damage! Not my old phone I bought years ago,” he began his post, lamenting at his phone company’s Trump ties. “What can I do? I’m checking with our office to see if I can get a T-Mobile flip phone. T-Mobile is not a supporter of the Trump fascist regime. But wait….T-Mobile donated to Trump’s ballroom, which has gone from $200 million to $400 million, suddenly. Where is that money going? There is no accounting. So T-Mobile is apparently out.”

The befuddling ballroom renovations are one thing, but the recent unrest in Minnesota is something entirely different. Young is a longtime political activist — two weeks ago, he penned a post reiterating his distaste for ICE and Trump, and last October, he announced he would be pulling his music from Amazon, citing Bezos’ Trump ties — but the recent ICE killings in Minneapolis have pushed him into a higher gear. This month, ICE agents fatally shot two American citizens in Minneapolis: Renée Good (Jan. 7) and Alex Pretti (Jan. 24).

“One by one, I am cancelling all contact with each of them,” Young proclaimed. “This is not easy, but the alternative – me giving money I got from you, for my music, to the Regime that backed the illegal killings of two Americans. That can’t happen… I’m trying to not support the companies that support the regime with huge donations, while people are being shot on the streets of America, not just Minnesota, AMERICA!”

The Billboard Hot 100-topping singer’s jabs didn’t stop there, as he quickly shifted his attention to Apple CEO Tim Cook, whom he claims “was at the Melania premiere at the White House just the other night, kissing ass.” He even threatened to sue Apple if his computer “doesn’t work without the new costly upgrade.”

“I’m stopping right now to call my business manager and make sure I do not upgrade anything from Apple… Tim Cook, the Apple CEO, [is] falling over backwards to support the regime!” Young alleged. “No one stands on their own. Supporting Apple is supporting Trump? How many of these big companies that we all need are contributing to the regime one way or another? Think of the money you spend and where it goes.”

As he continues to “re-assess everything [he is] doing,” Young will also seemingly wrestle with the future of his relationship with Warner, the “great record company” that currently distributes his music.

“I’ll keep you updated, folks,” he signed off.

At press time, representatives for T-Mobile, Apple, Verizon and Warner Music Group have not responded to Billboard’s requests for comment.

Travis Scott has always given Kid Cudi his flowers, and he highlights Cudder once again on Thursday (Jan. 29) for inspiring him to feel seen in hip-hop and like he could actually make it one day as a rapper.

Scott sat down with Rolling Stone for the publication’s My Life in 10 Songs video series, La Flame listed Cudi’s “Soundtrack 2 My Life” at No. 7 and explained how the 2009 Man on the Moon: The End of Day anthem made Trav feel like he was “brothers” with the Ohio rapper.

“It’s just the soundtrack to my life,” he began. “From 0:00 to the end of the song, I felt like we were brothers or something. We live like the same life. I think that s—t came out in ’09 and I was a senior in high school. I was like, ‘You know what, I could probably make it.’ People gotta understand, Cudi came out and was moving albums and s—t. To me, I was like, ‘Wow, people are really resonating with this.’”

Scott also remembered going to a Kid Cudi show, which featured Asher Roth as an opener, for one of the first concerts he ever attended.

“He had the LED screen and it was this black-and-white thing and the shadow and he walked out of the LED screen,” the Houston native recalled. “I remember looking around like people are really receptive to this guy’s story. I was like, ‘Okay, people will hopefully understand the story I got to tell.’”

The lore goes even deeper for Travis Scott. The Scott part of his stage name is inspired by Kid Cudi’s real name, Scott Mescudi.

Travis would end up working with Cudi for the first time on 2016’s Birds in the Trap Sing McKnight standout “Thru the Late Night.”

They joined forces for a handful of collaborations in later years, including the Billboard Hot 100 No. 1 hit “THE SCOTTS” as well as UTOPIA‘s “LOOOVE,” “Baptized in Fire,” “Get Off Me” and “At the Party.”

Elsewhere in Scott’s top 10, the 34-year-old listed tracks from artists like Kanye West, BJÖRK, Bon Iver, Fun, James Blake, Portishead, Z-Ro and Aphex Twin.

Watch the full video below.

As part of the questionnaire for this year’s Power 100 list, honorees were prompted to give their thoughts on four separate questions: the state of the industry, what they foresee for the future of the business, the charities they support and what they would do if they didn’t work in music. Over the next several days, we’ll run a roundup of responses to each of those questions — our way of offering a snapshot of what the biggest players in the industry are thinking as we head into the new year.

Related

This edition focuses on the following question: “What charity do you support and why?” Perhaps the most common answer among Power 100 honorees was MusiCares, the philanthropic arm of the Recording Academy that provides health and welfare services to the music community — from mental health and addiction recovery to support for basic living expenses when music workers experience financial hardship. Other music-focused charities named include Musicians on Call (which brings live and recorded music to hospital patients’ bedsides), the NMPA S.O.N.G.S. Foundation (which supports songwriters with services including educational programs and direct financial assistance) and Music Will (which provides free music education and instruments to schools in the U.S.)

Music charities weren’t the only organizations that received love from honorees. From nonprofits and foundations supporting the unhoused population (My Friend’s Place, The People’s Concern, Covenant House) to those supporting cancer patients and research (City of Hope, St. Jude), responses covered a broad range of charities.

Check out all the answers below.

Manager and entrepreneur Romel Murphy‘s dai + drm (pronounced ‘daydream’) has inked a multi-million dollar joint venture with Create Music Group, according to a press release about the deal. Murphy, who has enjoyed recent success with the launch of AI-assisted gospel artist Xania Monet, is building a “future-forward music label” that spans label services, management, consulting and marketing through the new deal, adding on to dai + drm’s established management and consulting branches.

Already, the JV has signed “AI-driven songwriters” Solomon Ray, Nova Sole and Aria Blu, as well as what it calls “traditional artists” (artists who do not use AI) like Jenneske, Renee Harmoni and IME Casino. The label describes these AI creatives as “AI-driven songwriters” because, through the use of generative AI, human songwriters who back the projects are able to bring their song ideas to life by creating AI-assisted or AI-generated master recordings.

Related

Murphy plans to apply the experience he’s had managing Telisha Jones — the woman behind Monet, who uses Suno to take her poems into AI-assisted songs — and her signing to Hallwood Media to make dai + drm into a next-generation label that applies “modern tools, including AI, to help [signees] scale their impact without compromising authenticity or ownership,” a press release states.

“This hybrid approach [to signing AI-driven and human talent] allows dai + drm to bridge worlds, pairing real music expertise with cutting-edge technology to serve creators across genres and formats,” says the press release about the deal.

The company wants its signees to be able to “retain equity and monetize across both master recordings and publishing,” according to the press release, to achieve “long-term sustainability and creative control.” (Note: dai + drm is a label, not a publisher).

“At every major shift in music, songwriters are often left out of the conversation,” says Murphy. “My goal is to make sure songwriters are at the forefront of AI in music, seated at the table, not getting crumbs, while maintaining ownership and long-term equity in their work.”

“Romel is an extremely bright entrepreneur. We look forward to seeing his record label flourish,” said Jonathan Strauss, CEO of Create Music Group, in a statement.

Since Donald Trump resumed presidential power in January 2025, one American institution in particular has seen a great many changes under his rule: The Kennedy Center.

After becoming the only POTUS to ever skip the Kennedy Center Honors ceremony multiple times during his first White House term (2016-2020) — and the first to ever do so without urgent international travel or crisis necessitating it — Trump has taken a special interest in the historic venue in his second term. Shortly after his second inauguration, he got to work overhauling the center’s board, firing many of the members and replacing them with his own Republican picks. The billionaire businessman also appointed himself as its new chairman, making him the first president to assume the role.

Under Trump’s direction, the Kennedy Center experienced a number of programming changes. Notably, one of the first things the new board did was cancel a scheduled Gay Men’s Chorus of Washington concert in February 2025.

But the twice-impeached politician wasn’t done embedding himself in the organization just yet. In December 2025, the Trump administration claimed that the board had “unanimously” voted to change the name of the institution to “The Trump-Kennedy Center,” with White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt writing on X that it was due to the “unbelievable work President Trump has done over the last year in saving the building.”

Trump told reporters shortly afterward, “This was brought up by one of the very distinguished board members, and they voted on it … I was very honored.”

The Kennedy Center was founded in 1971 to both memorialize President John F. Kennedy and serve as a dynamic hub for fine arts and culture — both of which, many creatives would argue, are inherently political. And in response to the polarizing president’s actions, many artists have pulled out of planned performances at the venue in Washington, D.C. — including renowned instrumentalists, composers and even Broadway stars — to protest Trump’s controversial politics.

As people continue expressing their opposition to the president’s Kennedy Center leadership with each new administrative development, Billboard is keeping track of it all. See a list of musicians who have canceled appearances at the institution below.

  

When Ian Schwartzman first met Joe Budden just over a decade ago, he told the veteran rapper exactly what was on his mind. “I hated Joe’s music, and so our first meeting was me telling Joe that,” says the founder/president of management company/label To The Top, 38, who now co-runs Budden’s business empire as CEO of The Joe Budden Network. “But I was always interested in him, because I felt like he was like a hip-hop Howard Stern, and I wanted to build a media broadcast lane with him. He said, ‘Normally I would tell you to go f— yourself, but I like that your head’s in that place. What I’ve been doing isn’t working, so I’m willing to be open.’”

Thus began a business partnership that has lasted a decade and has grown from Schwartzman — who also manages DJ Premier, Remy Ma, producer Brady Watt and NFL player Zaire Franklin — starting as Budden’s music manager into a culture podcast empire; the two ultimately launched the Joe Budden Network and built their company into a $20 million per year business, Schwartzman told the New York Times last year. Along the way, Schwartzman and Budden have helped define, and then redefine, the podcast business. They started out by licensing a show called Everyday Struggle to Complex; then launching a podcast on SoundCloud before moving to an exclusive licensing deal with Spotify; then going direct to fans via Patreon, preaching a DIY attitude to their thousands of loyal listeners and viewers.

Related

For Schwartzman — who runs To The Top alongside his business partner Keeb, head of technology Tyler Dilks and PR guru Matt Conaway, and the To The Top record label in partnership with DJ Premier — building the Joe Budden Network has been about more than helping to pioneer and perfect the video-podcast-as-essential-viewing furor that has taken over media in recent years. It’s also about showing fellow creators that there’s a different path to success than simply signing away the rights to content in exchange for an upfront advance — a lesson he learned early on as manager for Brooklyn rapper Papoose, who turned to independent distribution after being cast out of the major label system and found it more lucrative than he expected.

“My model is very much long-term business over chasing checks; I’m not into a quick buck to get over the hump,” Schwartzman says. And he finds similarities in his approach to the podcast and media creator business in the music business, which has seen artists gain much more power and leverage by building huge audiences on their own in the streaming era. “I’m very much into finding ways to build recurring revenue and long-term money and building businesses,” he adds. “And I feel like the ecosystem has shifted towards my mentality as opposed to how it was 15 years ago.”

What did you learn working with Papoose?

He’s the one who opened the door for me. I used to call him 20 times a day, and finally, after calling him for a year, he was like, “All right, you can manage me.” Everything from there, I learned a lot about how your position in the industry as an artist directly correlates with what opportunities you get.  

I couldn’t get him a major label deal because no one was interested. So I said, “Let’s go get a distribution deal.” Ingrooves Fontana handled both digital and physical, and he got to maintain ownership in the IP. We did an 80-20 deal — 80% went to Pap, 20% went to Ingrooves — and we sold, in two weeks, 20,000 copies. In the major label world, you’re getting dropped. In our world, with an 80-20 deal, we made like $300,000, and we were winners. And that opened my eyes to distribution. 

When you met Joe Budden, were you trying to get into the podcast media business, or did you see that as something that was specifically great for Joe?

When I started managing him, he had done a few episodes of his podcast, but that’s not what I saw. I had seen him on Love and Hip-Hop. He had a short stint in 2004 on WBLS as a drive time radio host. And I’m like, ‘Damn, he’s so entertaining.’ In 2015, when I started with Joe, I wanted to find a client that I could get into broadcast and media with. I ended up doing Joe’s last album 10 years ago, and I got him to do his first independent distribution deal, with EMPIRE and Ghazi. We recouped the same day we released, and I got Joe to buy into this whole independent thing. And when we were on our U.S. tour to support that album, he looked at me, like, six shows in, and he’s like, “I’m done with this. I’m going with your plan. Let’s focus on media, TV and content.” And I was like, “Say no more.”

Related

Early on, you guys started it as a video podcast. Now, almost every podcast is video. Why did you guys want to do video from the beginning?

I was like, if we put it up on YouTube, how many more people are going to watch the video once a week? It’ll make the podcast bigger. And they were watching you on Everyday Struggle — why are we going to keep that from them? And I don’t want to be braggadocious, but I feel like when we did that, we changed podcasting forever. 

The Spotify deal was audio-only, so we kept it on YouTube. Spotify flew us out to L.A., and we worked out a license deal with them. Probably the most valuable part of the deal was, I made them match, dollar for dollar, what they were going to pay us in marketing dollars that I had to approve. I wanted to feel Hollywood, so I needed them to spend money to not just promote it on Spotify, but to make this look like it’s something very special. We had billboards across the country, and we changed their business forever. We were getting a million listens an episode.

What did you learn from that experience with Spotify?

A big part of our negotiation was, we wanted to see data. What I learned was that people were listening. What I learned was that the big companies like Spotify and Apple make very little money on streaming because they have to give all their money to the labels. And what I realized was, when they have original audio, it offsets what they owe the labels. It flipped their deals. They were using us to negotiate their music deals, and they were also getting rich off of this medium of podcasting.

The rumors of IPO were coming down the pipe, and I was like, we don’t have equity in this. We had no ownership. We were getting paid pennies compared to what was happening inside the building. And what I learned from the data was our average listen time was over two hours per listener, and we’re talking about 800,000 people an episode. So when our deal was up, we started negotiating, and at this time, everyone’s coming after us. Amazon threw us an enormous offer. Spotify came. I was like, “Joe, let’s go D2C. Let’s let the fans tell us what we’re worth.” I reached out to Patreon CEO Jack Conte, and I was like, “I think we’re bigger than any deal they’re going to give us. I want to know what our support looks like.” But I told Jack, I’m not coming over there for just the upside of the deal terms. We want to own a piece of Patreon. And it took a lot of talking and negotiating, but he agreed to it.

Related

How difficult was it to get the paywall strategy correct?

We had a lot of meetings at Patreon before we launched. We asked them what worked for their most popular shows, and we also used our own discretion. We looked around, and we were like, “How do we build our own Netflix?” It was trial and error. We just added to it. We started with $5, $10 and $25 tiers a month, then we added the $50 tier, and this year we’re going to make some changes, too. Our goal is always, how do we make the experience for the viewer and listener better? They’ll be loyal to us forever if we really give a shit, and if we do, every opportunity we want will eventually come in front of us, and I think it’ll be multiples of what people are taking just to pay the bills. So that was our model.

How have you continued to expand it?

I would say 99.9% of it is the free funnel in quality content to a wider audience. And there’s a huge community around our show and around our network, so if you have something exclusive, like we have on Patreon, the free members aren’t going to want to feel left out of the conversation. We had partnerships that were helpful with Spotify, Revolt TV, Amazon, Love & Hip-Hop. Two months ago, we ran our first national TV campaign for prime time on CNN, ESPN, Fox, NBC, ABC. We have three different shows. But honestly, word of mouth is so valuable. It’s been our biggest marketing tool, and still is.

How do you feel this business compares with your previous experience in the music business?

Everyone’s chasing quick checks, as opposed to treating it like you’re building a business. Most people are signing to these big platforms, the Goliaths, because there’s no risk, and in that way, it’s very much reminiscent of the ‘90s and 2000s old-school record deals. But there is a small group of content creators, media brands and podcasters that are seeing the potential and the upside of controlling your IP and doing this yourself. And we’re doing everything we can to lay out a blueprint. 

Related

Thousands of people listen to this podcast for two hours apiece. There’s a lot of power that comes with that. How are you dealing with that?

I think podcasting and media creation is the future of our universe, the way we communicate with each other. So I feel an enormous sense of responsibility to not only have an entertaining show, but also be thoughtful of the messaging we’re passing along about what’s important, and what to look out for. Back in the day, you couldn’t put out a record unless you had a label. Today, you can go online, create a YouTube presence, an Instagram presence, and make money directly off of passive ad revenue or direct sponsorship deals. And there’s a lot of power in that, and I think it’s going to lead to a revolution in what we see in our workforce. 

There’s a revolution going on, and I see podcasting and media creation as being more popular than music in the future. Podcasting is modern-day television. It’s all melted into one, and the creator dictates the terms, not the network anymore. I think we’re going to start seeing teams like Joe and I that are as big as Disney. Those are our aspirations. We want to be a Goliath, but we want to do it independently, and we want to do it on our own. And I think we have a responsibility to deliver the information to the listeners and viewers on how they can build something themselves, and at least alert them to the options they have, because the future is bright.

What we are looked at [as] is a media network. What we really are is a data company that is taking the information and creating and curating around the facts. We’re not guessing anymore. The one thing that every creator has now is information. We want to become a household brand, but we want to be an institution for what the future of creators looks like, and that takes doing more than just making content.


Billboard VIP Pass